Will dead players be lootable

Discussion in 'Questions-Queries' started by d3vastater, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. d3vastater

    d3vastater

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    Regardless what type of server your in, you lose all items on your person. So if i kill someone can i take thier stuff
     
  2. Leo

    Leo Community Manager Staff Member Warlord Veteran Knight Young Knight Seasoned Adventurer

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    We haven't decided yet, but probably you will have some kind of loot from the players yes :)
     
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  3. Silentlyreborn

    Silentlyreborn Black VIP Black VIP Adventurer

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    oh this will be interesting are you thinking of doing the pvp zones or something like runescape where you have designated die lose everything areas?
     
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  4. PhantomFury

    PhantomFury Young Knight Seasoned Adventurer

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    Let PVP be everywhere, mwahahaha (in hardcore server)
     
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  5. Revan3917

    Revan3917 Seasoned Adventurer

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    I Think restrictions on what you can loot or the ability to loot everything but the killed player still keeps there equipped gear but loses everything else in the normal sever, while in hardcore as Phantom suggested everything is lost.
     
  6. Leo

    Leo Community Manager Staff Member Warlord Veteran Knight Young Knight Seasoned Adventurer

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    these suggestions sound good!
     
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  7. Denian

    Denian Minor Local Deity of Sarcasm | Web Developer Staff Member Administrator Halloween VIP Dark Green VIP Black VIP Young Knight Seasoned Adventurer

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    Dafuq? "Hey, let's swarm that guy. He's spent 5 years grinding through mining, forging etc. to get good equipment, so let's outnumber him so he knows it was all for nothing!"

    Am I seriously the only one who thinks this is A Bad Idea and Seriously Stupid (capitals intended)?

    [Edit, for the sake of further explanation]

    This will be an MMORPG, guys - not a MOBA. RPGs are these things people spend time on - they're not casual, and sometimes, you spend months working on a single piece of equipment to get it to the point you want.

    People like that - grinders - are the core player base of any MMORPG, and if we're stupid enough to say "hey, let's make it possible for anybody to just go and take away the result of that hard work", we will be fucked because our long time players will leave, and you will have lots of fun stealing basic low-level equips from noobs, because nobody would keep grinding in such a game.

    This isn't esports, where consequences are limited to the duration of a single round. Get it into your heads, people.

    [Edit 2]

    If you really want this, limit it to other PvPers. Mechanics like "the more you PK, the more you lose when you're killed" are established in other games already, and I can agree with those. Being a dedicated PvE player and losing everything because some asshole PKs you, though? Nope, not gonna support that. Ever.

    [Edit 3]

    Sorry for the tone, everybody. I've been a PvE grinder basically forever, and seeing something like this, which is aimed at making people like me exploitable by any random PKer that comes along, tends to make me mad.

    Let me rephrase my previous point in a more careful way (I'll leave the old text up so you can see what my honest first reaction was).

    RPGs in general - and, therefore, MMORPGs, too - are long term games. Unlike strategy games, MOBAs, shooters, racers and all the other genres, you don't play to win a single round, which lasts minutes, hours or (in the case of some strategy games) a few days. As an RPG player, you play for long-term gain.

    Resources are mined by people (probably afk, but let's pretend) and sold on the market (probably afk, but let's pretend). People buy resources (or gather their own) and craft items out of them. People buy (or gather) resources to upgrade those items - the higher the upgrade, the more resources they need and the higher the chance that the upgrade will fail, anyways. People know this, and the risk of lost resources is acceptable, because it's a risk they voluntarily take. They know that each upgrade attempt has the potential to fail and - worst case - destroy the item, but they can always opt to not attempt the upgrade.

    Now imagine you spent months trying to get that one sword to the highest upgrade level possible. Dozens, maybe hundreds, of failed attempts. Long hours of grinding for money and items. And minutes after you finally did it, some asshole PKer sees your shiny new weapon, kills you and takes it.

    How many people do you think would go through the whole thing a second time? Close to none. So how many high level equips would there be in the game if we don't go P2W? And I mean seriously P2W, as in "spend real money to get fully upgraded equipment".

    An MMORPG in which you can just PK peaceful players to take their hard-earned equipments would basically need to sell upgraded equips in the store, which is reason enough for me not to want to play such a game. Not being able to be a peaceful PvE grinder without being PKed every 30 seconds is a way bigger reason.

    I can understand catering to PvPers to a certain point. Dedicated PvPers are comparatively easy to satisfy - complex quest lines and detailed lore are lost on them, anyway. I'm less understanding when any PvP "features" result in oppressing the PvEers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  8. Revan3917

    Revan3917 Seasoned Adventurer

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    My Idea for lootable players was that the Pker would receive a duplicate of of the dead players items rather than the original so that the Pker has reason to kill people and the victim doesn't lose everything. there should still be a penalty for death on the normal sever given the infinite amount of lives because the victims of player ambushes may simply just stand there and allow themselves to die know they have no penalty for death or it could be abused to duplicate items, get a friend to kill you and unless there is a serve enough penalty in place the killer would receive a copy of your gear. Just my 2 cents
     
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  9. Denian

    Denian Minor Local Deity of Sarcasm | Web Developer Staff Member Administrator Halloween VIP Dark Green VIP Black VIP Young Knight Seasoned Adventurer

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    It would still mean that PKers would just swarm anybody with good equips. And I'm still not comfortable with rewarding PKers in any way, especially if they PK "peaceful" players. Restrict the whole thing to other PKers and you won't hear any further objections from me, but as long as your proposal means you get rewarded for killing players who decide to play PvE only, I'll disagree.

    Still, that's my opinion. Feel free to discuss this with the rest of the team. Here, let me summon @Black Abyss for you.
     
  10. RobinHoodPT

    RobinHoodPT Community Manager Staff Member Teal VIP Veteran Knight Young Knight Seasoned Adventurer

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    I agree with Denian here, it's really hard to come up with some kind of way to give PK'ers stuff from peaceful players, even if it's duplicate.
    I'm playing a mobile mmo for the funz and they have a special instance where you can get better materials, the main point here is that pvp is enabled on the whole instance, and it takes time to get a special material. So people can kill other people to gain the right to obtain the material they want. Is actually an interesting idea to reward pvp specific places while not losing anything for the peaceful players as they can also kill back.
     
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  11. Black Abyss

    Black Abyss Boiii Staff Member Administrator Black VIP Knight Young Knight Seasoned Adventurer Oldtimer

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    Story time, my beloved children:
    I remember the first game I played with open world PVP - the first few people in the game went up to higher levels really quickly, not even max just enough to get decent equipment, and then groups of them were sitting around the exits of safe zones. They kept beating me up, not because I was trash (Well I was but that's a different matter) but because there was nothing to do apart from hoping not to get killed. In the end everyone kept toying around with you cause it's funnier to piss people off than to protect them from the bad guys who are out there just to destroy your enjoyment for the sake of theirs.
    The game was rather quickly dying after it released to a broader audience, and why? Because nobody was able to even play it. It wasn't even that bad of a game, just starting to actually play it took hours of tears and hard work. And losing equipment after each death so a jerk could take it, no matter how weak or useless that god damn stick was, it just kept sucking on your enjoyment and will to go on till there was none left. The hard work didn't pay off to most people.

    Call 'em casuals, but they're the majority. And they're usually what dictates the game's life in an MMO. Note that it's all a personal opinion of mine, and in the end it'll go as our players will give us feedback during feature testing in the future. Nonetheless it needs a first version to ever be revised. Currently the idea was to implement some kind of reward to PK'ers for a successful kill, but nothing bad like losing their beloved equipment to people who do not engage in PK's. That's not the way in my opinion as the aim is to get as many people to enjoy our game as we can, not alienate and frustrate people with bad mechanics. We only want to frustrate people with difficult bosses :Lenny:

    Assuming people will demand the items of victims of bloodshed, we shall comply but for now it's a no due to a few reasons, one being how our current death system works and it works rather well. There's enough of a penalty for dying already, don't kick the dead man.
     
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  12. Ares

    Ares Purple VIP Black VIP Adventurer

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    For the casual server, are you guys planning for players to drop any items at all when they die? I think that they should have unlimited lives, but should drop some amount of their items. What do you guys think about players dropping a randomly selected 1/3rd or 1/4th of their items? They would obviously keep, when they respawn, the other 2/3rds or 3/4ths of the items they don't drop.
     
  13. Revan3917

    Revan3917 Seasoned Adventurer

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    That sounds like a good idea
    How does the current death system work what are the penalties?
     
  14. Black Abyss

    Black Abyss Boiii Staff Member Administrator Black VIP Knight Young Knight Seasoned Adventurer Oldtimer

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    You tryin to take my secrets aren't u
     
  15. Black Abyss

    Black Abyss Boiii Staff Member Administrator Black VIP Knight Young Knight Seasoned Adventurer Oldtimer

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    @Revan3917
    I'll skip hardcore and just explain casual for the sake of majority discussion. From our death mechanic documentation written by @Judah may Solaris shine upon his soul, we can read that:
    - upon death, the player looses (probably not all of it but quite a significant amount) his muney (currency is called CoS - WIP name, guess what it could mean :Doge: ) and a part of his experience.
    - you won't lose your character or gear and equipment.
    - the experience loss will be calculated as a % of your current level (you won't drop lower than you are basically but a minimum amount per level might be set, eg. your exp is currently at 30% so you lose it all for a level 5 character).

    Now, the money and experience turns into a beautiful floating crystal which is pretty much your old soul (because your soul is mostly composed out of money and a bit of experience, pretty much like in real life). The soul cannot be looted for a while, enough for you to get it back but in case you don't get it back in time during it's reserved for you, you lose it permanently. Another player can then pick it up after the time limit for the owner to pick it up has passed (this will have a few restrictions to it as well so that you can't boost your level 1 character to 15000 in a matter of minutes). The soul won't lie around for eternity either, just for a short while past the limit of your death. The soul won't be visible to other people during the death timer for the place you died either.
    Basically imagine it like the soul picking up in Dark Souls but you have a time limit to get it back + people can steal it if you're too slow.

    Apart from the above, the player also gets a new status called "Just reanimated" (although we'll probably rename it to "Just Re-Crystalized" due to how the deaths are included into the game lore-wise) - It gives a debuff of a global 5% stat loss over all your stats. Also a cool skull status which will replace your colored crystal which shows your status (we have those implemented, so let's say your normal green will turn into a dead dark grey/black and have cracks all over it).

    That's the gist of it for the time being. I consider those penalty enough to really make a casual server player mildly mad while not pushing them over the edge to quit the game (in Hardcore you lose a lot more, all of your gold, a high amount of durability if we go for implementing it cause we're mixed on that one, might even lose a % of your total EXP so not just your level but you can level down if you fuck up too badly but who goes for a hardcore server when he's not on a death-wish route).
    Note that all numbers presented above are WIP and will depend on fine-tuning it all later down the line once we get a big testing playerbase in who can actually attest to how it feels. It's a different matter between 20 people testing it as it is now and 250 people testing it which we'd love to get to as soon as possible.
     
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  16. Kei

    Kei Knight Young Knight Seasoned Adventurer

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    This sounds like PUBG XD
     
  17. Black Abyss

    Black Abyss Boiii Staff Member Administrator Black VIP Knight Young Knight Seasoned Adventurer Oldtimer

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    Never played it, does it really? Isn't it like you get shot = you get kicked out of the game? Was like this in that other zombie copy paste game I played but I forgot its name, not dayZ but another one.
     
  18. RobinHoodPT

    RobinHoodPT Community Manager Staff Member Teal VIP Veteran Knight Young Knight Seasoned Adventurer

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    I have no idea where he got pubg from tbh. Neither it's fortnite. When you die you drop all you're equipment and get kicked out of the game(a game being one round of 100 players)
     
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  19. Revan3917

    Revan3917 Seasoned Adventurer

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    @Black Abyss
    That sounds like a really cool death system, how long would the death crystal persist for and how long would the re-crystallised debuff last? Until you pick up your crystal or a fixed time?
     
  20. Maximuus0

    Maximuus0 Adventurer Adventurer

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    Well, i just read all the posts, soo i realized that if you implement the pk things in the hardcore i think atleast u sould'nt lose an live when u get killed by player because they can just go and kill all the newbies... yeah, there are usually that guys who go and kill all the things that they see xD (sorry if u cant understand something, english is not my first language :p:p)

    Edit:

    Maybe u can add some servers that there is always the pvp enable and others where u can choose if u want to do pvp or not but this is maybe a lost of money if anyone want to join these other servers, but i dont know :/
     
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